Discing vs. tilling in Surin

[Stargazer]

I'm new to Surin rice field farming, and have a technical question. We just bought a 50HP Kubota tractor with 6 disc and tiller. Our family rice fields are not near any irrigation canals, so we are limited to one natural rainfall rice crop a year. We are planning on growing off season feed for cows in the rice fields, using water from a large lake we've built. Most locals here disc the fields, usually with two passes, one cross. Some then also rototill it. That produces a finer soil grind.

I have read that over-tilling clay soil is problematical, as after rains a very finely ground soil can get hard and impervious.

A second issue is whether it is better long run to burn the perhaps 40cm rice stubble first, or better to disc it in. Burning is the most common here, which does lead to some pretty nasty air in the burn season. I've had to install HEPA air filters in our house in our village to deal with that.

I'd appreciate comments on these issues from some of the veteran farmers here. I'm an experienced equipment operator, and grew up on a farm, but am by no means a seasoned farmer.

 

[nomad97]

Sorry, Mel, I can not answer your question, it is way above my pay grade. I have never farmed in Thailand, nor anywhere else for that matter. Good luck with your quest.

 

[Lostone]

I'm new to Surin rice field farming, and have a technical question. We just bought a 50HP Kubota tractor with 6 disc and tiller. Our family rice fields are not near any irrigation canals, so we are limited to one natural rainfall rice crop a year. We are planning on growing off season feed for cows in the rice fields, using water from a large lake we've built. Most locals here disc the fields, usually with two passes, one cross. Some then also rototill it. That produces a finer soil grind.

I have read that over-tilling clay soil is problematical, as after rains a very finely ground soil can get hard and impervious.

A second issue is whether it is better long run to burn the perhaps 40cm rice stubble first, or better to disc it in. Burning is the most common here, which does lead to some pretty nasty air in the burn season. I've had to install HEPA air filters in our house in our village to deal with that.

I'd appreciate comments on these issues from some of the veteran farmers here. I'm an experienced equipment operator, and grew up on a farm, but am by no means a seasoned farmer.

Great you’re industrious. I wish I could do that. I think, as you already know, the best person to ask is your local agronomist.

 

[Surin]

I'm new to Surin rice field farming, and have a technical question. We just bought a 50HP Kubota tractor with 6 disc and tiller. Our family rice fields are not near any irrigation canals, so we are limited to one natural rainfall rice crop a year. We are planning on growing off season feed for cows in the rice fields, using water from a large lake we've built. Most locals here disc the fields, usually with two passes, one cross. Some then also rototill it. That produces a finer soil grind.

I have read that over-tilling clay soil is problematical, as after rains a very finely ground soil can get hard and impervious.

A second issue is whether it is better long run to burn the perhaps 40cm rice stubble first, or better to disc it in. Burning is the most common here, which does lead to some pretty nasty air in the burn season. I've had to install HEPA air filters in our house in our village to deal with that.

I'd appreciate comments on these issues from some of the veteran farmers here. I'm an experienced equipment operator, and grew up on a farm, but am by no means a seasoned farmer.

The ground is (as you know), almost useless pumice clay and only good for holding water for rice to enjoy.
You answered your own question about burning the stubble and can certainly help the atmosphere by not doing that and also having a capable tractor, I'd be ploughing the stuff back into the ground to break it up and composting. Worms love it.
You're going to lose a lot of your anticipated dam water through evaporation so make sure you don't stretch your ambitions too far.
Been there and done it all like you over 20+ years. Take a look around the area...ain't much productivity going on.
Most years lately, the drought continues and you give up and take up cooking!

 

[Wombat]

Be aware that cattle will be roaming everywhere in the off season and, unless you have fencing, they will eat all your off season crops. Also, make sure that none of your wife's family decide to pump out all the water from your dam so they can get the few fish that live there, this happens to most dams.

 

[Stargazer]

Good advice, Wombat. It's already on the agenda to fence the fields where we'll grow cattle fodder. We had to fence in the planting border outside our home so that the always-hungry water buffalo and cows going past every day don't eat the pretty plants and trees. I have been suitably warned of the water shortage problems in Surin, and while we have a well to supplement the lake, we may fall behind in the hot dry season. We're having a current issue with (apparently) rats tunneling in from the lower rice fields adjacent, creating drain holes out of the lake near the top, limiting our ability to pump in extra storage water from the nearby rice fields monsoon surplus that is still standing. We're already harvesting 1-2 kg. Nile tilapia from the lake, as well as big frogs and giant snails, so I don't want the lake pulled way down. We've already had some poaching problems. I've built a floating pier out into the lake, and a floating raft to get around with an electric trolling motor. I have a friend who lives on a lake in Reston, Virginia, and has such a 'raft', really a floating dock, and he goes out on the lake on it and has sunset dinners

Be aware that cattle will be roaming everywhere in the off season and, unless you have fencing, they will eat all your off season crops. Also, make sure that none of your wife's family decide to pump out all the water from your dam so they can get the few fish that live there, this happens to most dams.

 

[Stargazer]

The ground is (as you know), almost useless pumice clay and only good for holding water for rice to enjoy.
You answered your own question about burning the stubble and can certainly help the atmosphere by not doing that and also having a capable tractor, I'd be ploughing the stuff back into the ground to break it up and composting. Worms love it.
You're going to lose a lot of your anticipated dam water through evaporation so make sure you don't stretch your ambitions too far.
Been there and done it all like you over 20+ years. Take a look around the area...ain't much productivity going on.
Most years lately, the drought continues and you give up and take up cooking!

Thanks, Surin. Where we spend our summers (a 17 acre small mixed pasture and forest farm in SW Washington State that our family has owned for 70 years), it is now accepted that it's beneficial to let fallen trees rot rather than haul them and brush away and burn them, so the nutrients return to the soil. Probably so with the rice straw. As with composting, they may need extra nitrogen during decomposition. Good use for our cow poop. Our plan is to grow one rice crop a year, plus vegetables for use and sale, as well as cow fodder. Subsistence farming.

 

[Wombat]

Good advice, Wombat. It's already on the agenda to fence the fields where we'll grow cattle fodder. We had to fence in the planting border outside our home so that the always-hungry water buffalo and cows going past every day don't eat the pretty plants and trees. I have been suitably warned of the water shortage problems in Surin, and while we have a well to supplement the lake, we may fall behind in the hot dry season. We're having a current issue with (apparently) rats tunneling in from the lower rice fields adjacent, creating drain holes out of the lake near the top, limiting our ability to pump in extra storage water from the nearby rice fields monsoon surplus that is still standing. We're already harvesting 1-2 kg. Nile tilapia from the lake, as well as big frogs and giant snails, so I don't want the lake pulled way down. We've already had some poaching problems. I've built a floating pier out into the lake, and a floating raft to get around with an electric trolling motor. I have a friend who lives on a lake in Reston, Virginia, and has such a 'raft', really a floating dock, and he goes out on the lake on it and has sunset dinners

Sounds like you have a decent plan and you are aware of the pitfalls Mel, hope it works out for you, it will keep you active and busy which are pretty important.

 

[mario299]

Thanks, Surin. Where we spend our summers (a 17 acre small mixed pasture and forest farm in SW Washington State that our family has owned for 70 years), it is now accepted that it's beneficial to let fallen trees rot rather than haul them and brush away and burn them, so the nutrients return to the soil. Probably so with the rice straw. As with composting, they may need extra nitrogen during decomposition. Good use for our cow poop. Our plan is to grow one rice crop a year, plus vegetables for use and sale, as well as cow fodder. Subsistence farming.

Good to have a fellow Washingtonian aboard Mel, and welcome. Although I was born and raised in the Los Angeles area (South Bay beaches actually), I moved to Vancouver, WA in 1975 and owned a home there until 2010. What area is your pasture and forest farm in?

 

[Stargazer]

Good to have a fellow Washingtonian aboard Mel, and welcome. Although I was born and raised in the Los Angeles area (South Bay beaches actually), I moved to Vancouver, WA in 1975 and owned a home there until 2010. What area is your pasture and forest farm in?

Amboy, out 503 towards Mt. St. Helens. See http://amboy.malinowski.com. We now spend much of our USA time there in the late spring and summer. We like to travel and hike, especially internationally, but Covid has put a hold on most of that recently. I summited Mt. St. Helens in 1974 before the eruption. That's Spirit Lake in the foreground, and Mt. Rainier.

Vancouver is growing like a weed! It now extends east all the way to Camas, and is sprawling towards Battle Ground.

What part of Surin do you live in? We're near Rattanaburi.

 

[Wombat]

Amboy, out 503 towards Mt. St. Helens. See http://amboy.malinowski.com. We now spend much of our USA time there in the late spring and summer. We like to travel and hike, especially internationally, but Covid has put a hold on most of that recently. I summited Mt. St. Helens in 1974 before the eruption. That's Spirit Lake in the foreground, and Mt. Rainier.

Vancouver is growing like a weed! It now extends east all the way to Camas, and is sprawling towards Battle Ground.

What part of Surin do you live in? We're near Rattanaburi.

Just had a look at your Farm website Mel, very interesting. It's great to see and hear about other people's lives.

 

[mario299]

Amboy, out 503 towards Mt. St. Helens. See http://amboy.malinowski.com. We now spend much of our USA time there in the late spring and summer. We like to travel and hike, especially internationally, but Covid has put a hold on most of that recently. I summited Mt. St. Helens in 1974 before the eruption. That's Spirit Lake in the foreground, and Mt. Rainier.

Vancouver is growing like a weed! It now extends east all the way to Camas, and is sprawling towards Battle Ground.

What part of Surin do you live in? We're near Rattanaburi.

We live 12 km northwest of Prasat, so we're about 30 km south of Surin in a fairly small village (Thungmon). We built our home here in 2007, and also have some other pieces of land where the lovely wife raises piggies (newborn to about 6 weeks old), and also some rice growing.

I have some very good friends living in the Amboy area and when I was a working man back in "the day" I sold and installed roofing, replacement siding and windows all around there.

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you, good to talk with you.

 

[Coffee]

Amboy, out 503 towards Mt. St. Helens. See http://amboy.malinowski.com. We now spend much of our USA time there in the late spring and summer. We like to travel and hike, especially internationally, but Covid has put a hold on most of that recently. I summited Mt. St. Helens in 1974 before the eruption. That's Spirit Lake in the foreground, and Mt. Rainier.

Vancouver is growing like a weed! It now extends east all the way to Camas, and is sprawling towards Battle Ground.

What part of Surin do you live in? We're near Rattanaburi.

Mel, may I inquire as to where your Malinowski kin came from prior to Aberdeen , Washington ?
In which year did the earliest forefather Malinowski emigrate to the US and hail from ?

(ps: shoveling in diapers - terrific photo ;-)

 

[Stargazer]

We live 12 km northwest of Prasat, so we're about 30 km south of Surin in a fairly small village (Thungmon). We built our home here in 2007, and also have some other pieces of land where the lovely wife raises piggies (newborn to about 6 weeks old), and also some rice growing.

I have some very good friends living in the Amboy area and when I was a working man back in "the day" I sold and installed roofing, replacement siding and windows all around there.

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you, good to talk with you.

Haha! I designed & built homes in California and then started a building supply business there. We became the largest Pozzi/Jeldwen dealer in California. Lots of Milgard too. What are the family names of your Amboy area friends?

 

[Stargazer]

Mel, may I inquire as to where your Malinowski kin came from prior to Aberdeen , Washington ?
In which year did the earliest forefather Malinowski emigrate to the US and hail from ?

(ps: shoveling in diapers - terrific photo ;-)

My grandfather Anton immigrated from Poland in 1885. I also have a grandmother who came from Vilnius Lithuania

 

[mario299]

I

Haha! I designed & built homes in California and then started a building supply business there. We became the largest Pozzi/Jeldwen dealer in California. Lots of Milgard too. What are the family names of your Amboy area friends?

Small world...I've sold and installed many hundreds of Jeldwens and Milgards, in fact the last couple of my working years were working as the window and door rep for Home Depot in Olympia, Lacey, Tumwater areas selling those brands.
My good friend Wayne Holdahl lives on 5 acres just outside Amboy, he was the building inspector in Kelso/Longview area for several years.

 

[Stargazer]

I don't know Wayne. I grew up in Amboy, and mostly know the old time settler families, the Gilletes, Kaisers, Abernathies, Rotchies, Courtneys, etc. What does it take to be a 'Surin Founding Father'? You're 200 years old, or had a large number of children here by even more girlfriends?
One of my passions is flying. Here's my first solo glider flight in an ASK23 in Williams, California. The second is at 16,000 feet over the glaciers of South Island, New Zealand, flying wave lift out of Omarama, NZ. Not much gliding in Isaan, though, nor in Amboy. We might come over and visit your piggies sometime. Sounds like you're better farmers than us. We just raise a little rice, Nile tilapia, frogs, snails and veggies.

 

[Surin]

I don't know Wayne. I grew up in Amboy, and mostly know the old time settler families, the Gilletes, Kaisers, Abernathies, Rotchies, Courtneys, etc. What does it take to be a 'Surin Founding Father'? You're 200 years old, or had a large number of children here by even more girlfriends?
One of my passions is flying. Here's my first solo glider flight in an ASK23 in Williams, California. The second is at 16,000 feet over the glaciers of South Island, New Zealand, flying wave lift out of Omarama, NZ. Not much gliding in Isaan, though, nor in Amboy. We might come over and visit your piggies sometime. Sounds like you're better farmers than us. We just raise a little rice, Nile tilapia, frogs, snails and veggies.

Flown over it myself in my Cessna 172. Bloody cold, but beautiful.
Plenty of carbheat required.

 

[Stargazer]

Email me at mel.malinowski@me.com and we can figure out a way to come by to visit your farm. This is the lake we dug last winter. The mesh fence is to keep the frogs in, and the catfish out!

 

[Stargazer]

Flown over it myself in my Cessna 172. Bloody cold, but beautiful.
Plenty of carbheat required.

High for a 172! You must have supplemental oxygen. Riding the wave, we could have easily soared up to 50,000 feet BUT you use up a lot of oxygen up there, freeze your toot off and it’s a long way down. So we stopped at 16K