How can you grow stuff in this shite?

[IsaanAussie]

Thought I would kick off with a note on the condition of soils in this area. SHITE! Hard as a rock now and porridge in a few weeks after a decent rain. Same in the garden and the veggie patch. Now the "lawn" looks like it has been treated with napalm not fertiliser.
I say "lawn" because people (poms and vikings) will pay for me to give them one of those, whereas my follow countrymen usually cultivate "gur-bloody-arse". When you ask for a few baht from an Ocker, they politely describe their existing fertiliser program, "Piss on that!" Actually not a bad idea but better if you gather the urine in a bucket and add 20 times the amount of water then dump that on the "lawn".
The problem with the dirt here is it is upside down, just like the Yarra River back in Melbourne, shit on the top. It is lifeless, chemical fertilisers make it worse. No worms, no humus, no "good guy" biology, just heaps of salt residuals.
You can grow stuff in it because it has heaps of phosphate and potassium locked in it, but the nitrogen from all those bags of ferts has leeched out. "It'll grow but it won't thrive." I told that to the pimple faced garden policeman from the local council back home when he demanded I plant a native only garden. Surprise, surprise, none of those plants he gave me saw old bones, died almost instantly.
The answer is to build the soil up incorporating compost, biochar and other organic stuff. (Don't tell anyone but all that stuff is made from materials that are usually burnt here) The 6 for 100baht bags of "topsoil"? You're joking? That stuff is like cornflakes, the box is more nutritious, or in this case, probably the plastic bag.
Seriously if you get the soil healthy first, it will take care of the plants needs. Even the Aussies will be happy. You know, those guys that rock into town with with a new fifty dollar note, a clean tee shirt, but dont change either of them for weeks. The gar-arse, will look great!
Now is the time to do it, just before the early rains. So for you Aussies who are thinking of responding with "Go and get rooted!" I have only one thing to say, "Ex-bloody-actly!!!"

 

[farang_bootneck]

Thought I would kick off with a note on the condition of soils in this area. SHITE! Hard as a rock now and porridge in a few weeks after a decent rain. Same in the garden and the veggie patch. Now the "lawn" looks like it has been treated with napalm not fertiliser.
I say "lawn" because people (poms and vikings) will pay for me to give them one of those, whereas my follow countrymen usually cultivate "gur-bloody-arse". When you ask for a few baht from an Ocker, they politely describe their existing fertiliser program, "Piss on that!" Actually not a bad idea but better if you gather the urine in a bucket and add 20 times the amount of water then dump that on the "lawn".
The problem with the dirt here is it is upside down, just like the Yarra River back in Melbourne, shit on the top. It is lifeless, chemical fertilisers make it worse. No worms, no humus, no "good guy" biology, just heaps of salt residuals.
You can grow stuff in it because it has heaps of phosphate and potassium locked in it, but the nitrogen from all those bags of ferts has leeched out. "It'll grow but it won't thrive." I told that to the pimple faced garden policeman from the local council back home when he demanded I plant a native only garden. Surprise, surprise, none of those plants he gave me saw old bones, died almost instantly.
The answer is to build the soil up incorporating compost, biochar and other organic stuff. (Don't tell anyone but all that stuff is made from materials that are usually burnt here) The 6 for 100baht bags of "topsoil"? You're joking? That stuff is like cornflakes, the box is more nutritious, or in this case, probably the plastic bag.
Seriously if you get the soil healthy first, it will take care of the plants needs. Even the Aussies will be happy. You know, those guys that rock into town with with a new fifty dollar note, a clean tee shirt, but dont change either of them for weeks. The gar-arse, will look great!
Now is the time to do it, just before the early rains. So for you Aussies who are thinking of responding with "Go and get rooted!" I have only one thing to say, "Ex-bloody-actly!!!"

Agreed, the top soil here is terrible. In my last house we had a large back garden that wouldn't grow anything. Thanks for the tips mate.

 

[adam]

Can't pretend to understand everything you wrote, but my advice to anyone wanting to grow anything here is to invest in a buffalo of two. Until recently we had 14, so loads of shite for me to use on the veggiesThumbUp6

 

[IsaanAussie]

Can't pretend to understand everything you wrote, but my advice to anyone wanting to grow anything here is to invest in a buffalo of two. Until recently we had 14, so loads of shite for me to use on the veggiesThumbUp6

Adam, try composting it first. You will get more out of it. Buffalo's are pretty sticky, they don't leave much behind in nutrients. Even the "roundabouts" they leave behind are bits of a bluff. Four beetles, left to it overnight , and the traffic is free to flow.
To me buffalo shite is like rice as a main meal, one decent fart and your hungry again.

 

[AussieBill]

Useful info, IsaanAussie, and beautifully reported in our cultured Aussie language.

 

[IsaanAussie]

No apologies at my age, old dog no new tricks

Useful info, IsaanAussie, and beautifully reported in our cultured Aussie language.

What, you mean culture like the Minister of DeYarts, Les Patterson? Close but more like Sandown "Dish Lickers" greyhound track, all ***** and ribs. Attracted to this fair land by its cultural heritage? (Muffled fart) No Mate, just an Aussie battler from the school of Hard Knocks.

 

[nomad97]

I couldn't agree more with what you are saying. If only not to start an argument. We moved into a new house about 8 months ago and the front garden was a builders dump yard. Had to pay 2,000 baht to get some people to clear out all the rubble, bricks, old cement and tiles. Then had a couple of truck loads of old paddy fields as quality top soil - my arse! Anyway, laid the grass at the end of December and already looking quite good. Upsets the neighbour because he laid his grass some 4 months earlier than me and his is still looking like shite.

My little trick to make the grass grow good is to mix builders sand with those bags of black compost about 50/50. I then spread this over the grass as a top dressing. I use a stiff brush to work the dressing in and finish with ample watering. Its also a good way to even out those dips and hollows over a period of time. Don't lay the top dressing too thick and always allow the grass to show through. Be patient, spread a little and wait a little and you will get a good lawn in next to no time.

ThumbUp6

 

[IsaanAussie]

Turf on Concrete - Sod That

I couldn't agree more with what you are saying. If only not to start an argument. We moved into a new house about 8 months ago and the front garden was a builders dump yard. Had to pay 2,000 baht to get some people to clear out all the rubble, bricks, old cement and tiles. Then had a couple of truck loads of old paddy fields as quality top soil - my arse! Anyway, laid the grass at the end of December and already looking quite good. Upsets the neighbour because he laid his grass some 4 months earlier than me and his is still looking like shite.

My little trick to make the grass grow good is to mix builders sand with those bags of black compost about 50/50. I then spread this over the grass as a top dressing. I use a stiff brush to work the dressing in and finish with ample watering. Its also a good way to even out those dips and hollows over a period of time. Don't lay the top dressing too thick and always allow the grass to show through. Be patient, spread a little and wait a little and you will get a good lawn in next to no time.

ThumbUp6

Commercial turf grass growers often grow on a concrete base. Makes Isaan front yards the ideal sites for a lawn farm, Think1
The make or break here is what you do under the turf before you lay it. It must be able to hold moisture and allow the roots to penetrate. When you water the lawn on a compacted paddy soil base, the water just soaks through and is gone. Water as much as you like and the grass still looks burnt and patchy and you can see a contour map emerge that shows all your dips and hollows.
Think of it like this. You take a bath towel and saturate it. Then you lay that out on the paved driveway in the sun. Excess water just runs down the drive. Dry in a flash. Now take a saturated sponge and do the same thing, takes longer to dry out, but the result is much the same. The air pockets in the sponge fill with water but don't trap it, just slow it down.
What you need to use something that absorbs some of the water, but still drains. So just duck over the garden supplier and get a truckload of humus rich mountain soil. "JUST"? How many times have I heard the "experts" advise that... JUST doesnt exist or costs "JUST" a little bit more. What a ***** of a word, implying doing anything is easy but paying for it will break the bank.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Buffalos give Granny-In-Law Brain Cancer

Hey Adam,
Forget to mention this. Buffalos must be the worst investment a farang could make, take your eye off them for a second and they are dead and gone. Or grandmother develops brain cancer from the extra methane in the air.
There are so many "documented" cases of buffalos causing expensive problems for farangs, it must be true! Not worth the risk.

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Easier said than done here in Isaan. How exactly do you explain to a garden supplier what you want -or even the wife as a go-between. Almost impossible. More relevantly where does one find a garden supplier? Thais do not have gardens -they have concrete! To the Thais earth is earth, The trucks deliver having dug up a paddy field or deepening a reservoir. What arrives is always "the best"!

Thats why people resort to the 6 for 100bt compost bags. That seems to be all that is available!

 

[adam]

Hey Adam,
Forget to mention this. Buffalos must be the worst investment a farang could make, take your eye off them for a second and they are dead and gone. Or grandmother develops brain cancer from the extra methane in the air.
There are so many "documented" cases of buffalos causing expensive problems for farangs, it must be true! Not worth the risk.

My father in law has always had buffalo (I never understood why we had them, status symbol I guessed) But they have just sold 12, for a very good price, and get this guys, the father and mother in law are building a house (thai style) with the money. Never had a problem in 12 years and every year they produce new ones for free, don't need land as it is understood that in the dry season they are free to graze anywhere. In the wet season we feed them a combination of straw from last years rice, or grass cut from the banks in the paddies.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Then make some Nick

Easier said than done here in Isaan. How exactly do you explain to a garden supplier what you want -or even the wife as a go-between. Almost impossible. More relevantly where does one find a garden supplier? Thais do not have gardens -they have concrete! To the Thais earth is earth, The trucks deliver having dug up a paddy field or deepening a reservoir. What arrives is always "the best"!

Thats why people resort to the 6 for 100bt compost bags. That seems to be all that is available!

The clay based acidic soil that is delivered is actually not a bad place to start. Well for me it is the only place to start, thats what I got. This type of clay is actually an important part of good soil, believe it or not because of electrical conductivity.
WTF is he talking about now? OK for those just wanting the bottom line on how to save a quid, cop this:

Simple recipe for viable soil: (By volume)
1 part paddy soil
1 part good compost
1 part Biochar
Simple fertiliser components
Rice bran
Agricultural lime
Dolomite
Rockphosphate
Potash
EM

None of that is expensive. The compost and biochar you can make yourself. Even the EM can be made from rice wash water and milk.
Chemical fertilisers have made everything easy but at a cost. My advise is to learn more about what is happening in the garden, what makes it work, or how does the soil interact with the plants?

 

[adam]

Very interesting, my wife is not far off with what she has been doing then, we use as she calls it skinned rice (rice bran). We have a rice thresher for skinning the rice with various grades from course to powder. This used in various things from floor in the chicken coop, bulking up the pig feed and mixing with poop for the rubber trees.

She has also made EM water using various different things (not 100% sure if this info is correct), but I think she has used some kind of snail shells one time and another using what looked to me like molasses. In fairness she has read widely and has asked the local government farming specialist. Lets face it we will never be able to grow fruit and veg as good as Chaing Mai, but we try our best.

My ambitions on this until I retire are very small scale, just growing enough veg for the family.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Adam's Missus the guru!

Very interesting, my wife is not far off with what she has been doing then, we use as she calls it skinned rice (rice bran). We have a rice thresher for skinning the rice with various grades from course to powder. This used in various things from floor in the chicken coop, bulking up the pig feed and mixing with poop for the rubber trees.

She has also made EM water using various different things (not 100% sure if this info is correct), but I think she has used some kind of snail shells one time and another using what looked to me like molasses. In fairness she has read widely and has asked the local government farming specialist. Lets face it we will never be able to grow fruit and veg as good as Chaing Mai, but we try our best.

My ambitions on this until I retire are very small scale, just growing enough veg for the family.

Mate, Your missus is right on the money, you need to catch up.... the Thai Ag Dept extension officers are providing heaps of good stuff and the web has a lot in English.
The first part of rice milling is removing the husk. That goes into the animal pens or get burnt to make biochar. Next the outer bran is removed, (grade 2 bran) great for fertilisers about 6%protein. Then the inner bran and some of the grain is removed through the polished stage, (grade1 bran) animal feed about 12% protein and about 12 baht a kilo to buy. That is why the rice millers will mill your rice for nothing, they get the bran. I grow HomMali rice and only get 15 baht a kg, who's the real dick-head?
Snail shells provide calcium and lots of other nutrients. Molasses is used to feed the biology and since single sugars are the first to decompose often used in composting. Used to extend EM but multiplying the bacteria. 1Litre of EM, 1 of molasses and 18 litres of water and you have 20 litres of EMA. Also a useful feed energy and taste ingredient.
Pretty simply stuff...

 

[IsaanAussie]

Get your wife into biochar Alan

Since you have the rice hulls/husk you should try this. The picture shows a pile of rice hull heaped up over an empty kero tin which is punched full of holes. The bottom is cut out of the tin and a hole in the top so the pipe shown forms the chimney. Start a "black fellas" fire, small heap of twigs, and put the tin over it. Stand up the chimney on top and heap up the hulls. The fire inside the tin draws air through the hulls. The hulls release gas and the gas is burnt inside the tin producing heat which chars the hulls on the outside. Want more details google "rice hull biochar" or the process called "pyrolisis" or "gasification".

 

[CO-CO]

This is better than Gardeners Question Time ! :biggrin:


I have been trying to keep - but what is "EM" water.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Effective Micro-organisms

This is better than Gardeners Question Time ! :biggrin:


I have been trying to keep - but what is "EM" water.

It is a cultured brew of microbes. Commercial EM contains lactic acid bacteria, a photosynthetic bacteria and yeast (fungii). Basically used to aid decomposition, a lot of applications but that is what it does.
Indigenous Micro-Organisms are the ones that occur naturally in the environment. Every organic substance is covered in bacteria naturally, Yeap, even us!
Thailand has a very large industry culturing different microbes for agriculture, industry and the food industry. Sauerkraut is fermented using lactic acid bacteria, so is yogurt. Cheese made using rennet (bacteria).

 

[IsaanAussie]

Natural Garden Supplies (In English)

After several conversations I am starting to think that a market for small quantities of natural gardening treatments and fertilisers may exist. Packaged in bottles of 1 litre or less of concentrate, these would make up 200 litres of foliar spray or drench. Adequate for most home gardeners for some time.
Root Feeder, Growth, Bloom and Fruit, Pests, Diseases and others all made with naturally occurring plants and materials. Mix and match to achieve several issues at once. Understand what is in each one and what it achieves. Of course compost, worm castings, pelleted fertiliser and EM all available at the same time.
If you are a keen gardener but put off by the results you can achieve or help available I would appreciate your comments. What do you want and how do I get it to you?