Raising cows vs. water buffalo?

Stargazer

Stargazer

Surin Legend
My Thai family is not of one mind about whether we should raise cows vs. water buffalo. An obvious con to cows is the prevalence of lumpy skin disease now. My family says water buffalo are much less prone to diseases, and can go out in the wet fields in the wet season to browse when the cows cannot. I'm unclear whether there is a good market for young male water buffalo. Some say that their meat is being exported at a good price. Does anyone in this group have experience raising either? I want this to be a viable business for them, not a hobby. We have lots of fodder available for either.
 
@Mel Malinowski the family have raised cows for years. I have supported them from time to time with strategic investments like a new cow house - I get as much shit as I can use on the garden.

The economics are not very clear and only seems to make sense to me if you assume the cost of labour is zero.

Variable Costs:
Straw (costs vary from 25 Baht a bail to 100 depending when in the season you buy - so best to buy when it's cheap and store - Family have just bought 400 bails
Feed to supplement the straw when there is no grazing land - cost and availability vary.
Semen (About 2,000 Baht a shot)
Gasohol for grass cutter (bush cutter) and for truck to transport grass to cows when cows cannot go to grass

Capital Costs and Maintenance :
Cow house
Straw store
bush cutter
grass transport vehicle

Revenue:
Selling dried shit - about 30 Baht for a rice sack
Selling cows 30,000 Baht upwards
The business seems to be a production system for making cows and selling them - single cows; Mother and daughter; Male cows (worth less)

The family have said that Buffalo are worth more but are more difficult to care for.


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Mel Malinowski said:
My Thai family is not of one mind about whether we should raise cows vs. water buffalo. An obvious con to cows is the prevalence of lumpy skin disease now. My family says water buffalo are much less prone to diseases, and can go out in the wet fields in the wet season to browse when the cows cannot. I'm unclear whether there is a good market for young male water buffalo. Some say that their meat is being exported at a good price. Does anyone in this group have experience raising either? I want this to be a viable business for them, not a hobby. We have lots of fodder available for either.
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Both. Not a problem for either one. What has been invested by The Department of Livestock Development forget about anything in my area. My wife has been involved in this program for 8 years. She has over 20 head of cows and her mom has 4 buffalo. There are over 1000 cows in this program
 
Are you basically the economic support for your family ?
If so, how much can you afford to 'invest' every month ?

As an example:
Just give the family 20,000/month (30,000/month) and look /(walk) away.

Your THB240,000 (THB360,000) "investment" annually is generous and if they cannot get their shyte together with your allocation than that simply is their own fault.

When you're dead they can talk with your wife regarding further upkeep or selling the land...hopefully by then your wife can make her own decisions on 'gifting' or tell them to sod off.

Surely it all depends on your "family situation" as every family is different.
Some families work their asses off while other families are less talented or inclined.

What I write may sound cynical but I've found it fits many a bill in rural Isaan understanding there are no "western-style" social economic support systems in Thailand.
Your 'partner' picked you for that job.
 
Coffee said:
Are you basically the economic support for your family ?
If so, how much can you afford to 'invest' every month ?

As an example:
Just give the family 20,000/month (30,000/month) and look /(walk) away.

Your THB240,000 (THB360,000) "investment" annually is generous and if they cannot get their shyte together with your allocation than that simply is their own fault.

When you're dead they can talk with your wife regarding further upkeep or selling the land...hopefully by then your wife can make her own decisions on 'gifting' or tell them to sod off.

Surely it all depends on your "family situation" as every family is different.
Some families work their asses off while other families are less talented or inclined.

What I write may sound cynical but I've found it fits many a bill in rural Isaan understanding there are no "western-style" social economic support systems in Thailand.
Your 'partner' picked you for that job.
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I would suggest that this phenomenon is not any more prevalent in rural Isaan than it is in the urban centers or at the pinnacle of the .0001% that hold the 70% of the nations wealth.

I would even go so far as to suggest that it is as common in western societies with ample
socio economic safety nets. The ability to provide for your spouse being a determining factor in whom would be willing to be your spouse is not a rural Isaan " thing " , an Asian " thing" nor even a 21 st century " thing".

Any man who believes his wife was so enamored by his sparkling personality, exceptional good looks and charming sense of humour only, is either a fool or is married to one.

No offence intended.
 
georgefromcanada said:
I would suggest that this phenomenon is not any more prevalent in rural Isaan than it is in the urban centers or at the pinnacle of the .0001% that hold the 70% of the nations wealth.

I would even go so far as to suggest that it is as common in western societies with ample
socio economic safety nets. The ability to provide for your spouse being a determining factor in whom would be willing to be your spouse is not a rural Isaan " thing " , an Asian " thing" nor even a 21 st century " thing".

Any man who believes his wife was so enamored by his sparkling personality, exceptional good looks and charming sense of humour only, is either a fool or is married to one.

No offence intended.
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I would totally agree to your statement regarding the perceived financial support for a better life and the potential for raising a family.

I must admit that I was never asked to support my former partner's parents or extended family while cohabitating in the US.
 
Bandersnatch said:
@Coffee - not sure if you were referring to me but happy to answer

Salaries every month:

GF: ฿12,000
Mum: ฿5,000
Dad: ฿2,000
Sister: ฿3,000 moved from BKK when factory shut down due to covid

These costs are not a burden to me.
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I was not referring to you or anyone in particular @Bandersnatch . I was just posting a general opinion from my own personal observation.

Personally speaking I would rather not get financially involved with an investment towards another persons business that cannot fully explain its operation to make a profit or does not involve me personally with some control.

Gifting is something that creates less stress for me personally when I think of it simply as a 'mitzvah'.
 
Bandersnatch said:
@Mel Malinowski the family have raised cows for years. I have supported them from time to time with strategic investments like a new cow house - I get as much shit as I can use on the garden.

The economics are not very clear and only seems to make sense to me if you assume the cost of labour is zero.

Variable Costs:
Straw (costs vary from 25 Baht a bail to 100 depending when in the season you buy - so best to buy when it's cheap and store - Family have just bought 400 bails
Feed to supplement the straw when there is no grazing land - cost and availability vary.
Semen (About 2,000 Baht a shot)
Gasohol for grass cutter (bush cutter) and for truck to transport grass to cows when cows cannot go to grass

Capital Costs and Maintenance :
Cow house
Straw store
bush cutter
grass transport vehicle

Revenue:
Selling dried shit - about 30 Baht for a rice sack
Selling cows 30,000 Baht upwards
The business seems to be a production system for making cows and selling them - single cows; Mother and daughter; Male cows (worth less)

The family have said that Buffalo are worth more but are more difficult to care for.


20210207_044302206_ios-1.jpg


20210207_044008828_ios.jpg


20210207_044223473_ios.jpg


20210207_051839203_ios.jpg


20210207_044543224_ios.jpg

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Nice cow barn! We're smaller than that. We're in the process of fencing in rest of the family rice fields so as to not be overrun by local livestock. My brother-in-law's sister just offered to dig postholes for the 380 concrete fence posts for 5 baht per hole. An offer I certainly cannot match, and accepted. I ran businesses at a profit for many years, but unfortunately, can't pencil out farming as profitable here, which is confirmed by the comments posted. Oh, well. That's what the family wants to do, it's traditional, and I can afford to subsidize it. A relative has offered to sell us four female water buffalo for 100K total, and I suppose I'll bankroll that. I figured out that on our last annual commute from USA, we each 'earned' $100 per hour for sitting in economy airline seats rather than in business class. I'm retired, and won't turn that wage down, particularly as it is tax-free so to speak. I must admit I prefer lay flat for those long flights, but my wife thinks it extravagant, and I'm still tough enough to endure coach. Thanks for the hay suggestion, I'll stock up.
 
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Bandersnatch said:
@Coffee - not sure if you were referring to me but happy to answer

Salaries every month:

GF: ฿12,000
Mum: ฿5,000
Dad: ฿2,000
Sister: ฿3,000 moved from BKK when factory shut down due to covid

These costs are not a burden to me.
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Wow! I'll have to re-negotiate, as my salaries are quite a bit higher. My wife was working in Bangkok earning about 30,000 a month and sending 10,000 to her mother. I offered to replace this as a 'retirement pension' so she could continue to meet her family obligations without me having to approve individual expenditures constantly. I funded a charitable remainder trust with my university that will eventually pay her 50,000 total monthly for the rest of her life. That should be adequate, as I built her a very nice modern house here. But it got more complex. As we spend 6 months or a bit more a year away, I hired her sister to move to live with 'elderly' mom (she's one of those 70s folks who are, unlike me , already old) and take care of her for five years. Then my wife's son got his girlfriend pregnant (as she just graduated as a nurse, I think she did it on purpose so her mom would have a grandson) so I took on a salary for her so she could finish university (as her now-husband got unlucky and is serving two years in the Thai navy). Etc. It's working out OK, but as Carl Sagan quipped 'a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money!'.
 
Mel Malinowski said:
Wow! I'll have to re-negotiate, as my salaries are quite a bit higher. My wife was working in Bangkok earning about 30,000 a month and sending 10,000 to her mother. I offered to replace this as a 'retirement pension' so she could continue to meet her family obligations without me having to approve individual expenditures constantly. I funded a charitable remainder trust with my university that will eventually pay her 50,000 total monthly for the rest of her life. That should be adequate, as I built her a very nice modern house here. But it got more complex. As we spend 6 months or a bit more a year away, I hired her sister to move to live with 'elderly' mom (she's one of those 70s folks who are, unlike me , already old) and take care of her for five years. Then my wife's son got his girlfriend pregnant (as she just graduated as a nurse, I think she did it on purpose so her mom would have a grandson) so I took on a salary for her so she could finish university (as her now-husband got unlucky and is serving two years in the Thai navy). Etc. It's working out OK, but as Carl Sagan quipped 'a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money!'.
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I was responding to Coffee's open question "how much can you afford to 'invest' every month ?" As an example the family lost their rented farm this year when the owner decided to sell. They have been renting for over a decade and have worked hard to improve the land, so they were devastated. I purchased them a few rai which is obviously a one off expense and outside the monthly salary.

 
Coffee said:
Mel, just for the record GL and his Mrs are about to become proud grandparents of twins.

Being a devoted husband GL has not played in a Thai sandbox for a very long time...possibly the same as you. ;-)
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My wife and I have a deal: I am free to have a girlfriend, as long as she gets to Bobbit me and take half my money and that sure is not going to happen.
 
georgefromcanada said:
I would suggest that this phenomenon is not any more prevalent in rural Isaan than it is in the urban centers or at the pinnacle of the .0001% that hold the 70% of the nations wealth.

I would even go so far as to suggest that it is as common in western societies with ample
socio economic safety nets. The ability to provide for your spouse being a determining factor in whom would be willing to be your spouse is not a rural Isaan " thing " , an Asian " thing" nor even a 21 st century " thing".

Any man who believes his wife was so enamored by his sparkling personality, exceptional good looks and charming sense of humour only, is either a fool or is married to one.

No offence intended.
Click to expand...
Haha! Very funny. As Steve Martin joked: "Sex is one of the most wholesome, beautiful and natural experiences money can buy."
 
Bandersnatch said:
I was responding to Coffee's open question "how much can you afford to 'invest' every month ?" As an example the family lost their rented farm this year when the owner decided to sell. They have been renting for over a decade and have worked hard to improve the land, so they were devastated. I purchased them a few rai which is obviously a one off expense and outside the monthly salary.

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Solar legend, I have a question: is it actually cost-effective to generate photovoltaic here in Surin? Great sun, but electricity is relatively cheap.
 
I am quite sure the initial, setup costs, are very significant. Apart from the solar panels, batteries, and electrical converters, all your appliances would need changing out too. I feel sure you would also need to insulate the house to minimise heat loss too. My own studies suggested such an expenditure would not be paid back in PEA electricty bills in my lifetime. In @Bandersnatch's case, he did start from scratch with a complete eco build, which would make the project more viable. However, I think you have to be fully committed to the concept to make it work. Even then, capital investment versus payback time surely must be in excess of 10 years.
 
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