Overseas income rule 2024

Stargazer

Surin Legend
Hi,

I just read this in TBP:

”The new rule, which will take effect Jan 1, 2024, will enable authorities to tax foreign income of individuals if they have been a resident of Thailand for at least 180 days in the particular assessment...

The new rule, which will take effect Jan 1, 2024, will enable authorities to tax foreign income of individuals if they have been a resident of Thailand for at least 180 days in the particular assessment... “

Wow! I have personally been keeping my stays in Thailand to under 180 days a year due to USA rules that would void my wife’s ‘permanent resident’ status (‘Green card’) if she is out of the USA 6 months or more in a year. I guess now I’ll have to be careful on this. How will this affect real Farang full-time retirees here? Also, is the ’assessment period’ Jan. 1 - Dec 31?

This will run contrary to TBI attempts to lure wealthy retirees. Also motivate them to spend less time in Thailand. My wife would prefer we live here full-time, but that won‘t be practical if Thailand wants a slice of all my all-offshore income, which is all of it.
 
Hi,

I just read this in TBP:

”The new rule, which will take effect Jan 1, 2024, will enable authorities to tax foreign income of individuals if they have been a resident of Thailand for at least 180 days in the particular assessment...

The new rule, which will take effect Jan 1, 2024, will enable authorities to tax foreign income of individuals if they have been a resident of Thailand for at least 180 days in the particular assessment... “

Wow! I have personally been keeping my stays in Thailand to under 180 days a year due to USA rules that would void my wife’s ‘permanent resident’ status (‘Green card’) if she is out of the USA 6 months or more in a year. I guess now I’ll have to be careful on this. How will this affect real Farang full-time retirees here? Also, is the ’assessment period’ Jan. 1 - Dec 31?

This will run contrary to TBI attempts to lure wealthy retirees. Also motivate them to spend less time in Thailand. My wife would prefer we live here full-time, but that won‘t be practical if Thailand wants a slice of all my all-offshore income, which is all of it.


Thread already running here:-

 
So, will they be taxing the monies brought in and banked in Thailand for the purposes of gaining a retiree visa? :) (Yes, I know, some/many have the double tax agreement with their countries and Thailand.) I'm wondering how many farangs this will actually affect. Will this mess with the 'digital nomads' from some countries?
 
So, will they be taxing the monies brought in and banked in Thailand for the purposes of gaining a retiree visa? :) (Yes, I know, some/many have the double tax agreement with their countries and Thailand.) I'm wondering how many farangs this will actually affect. Will this mess with the 'digital nomads' from some countries?
That mate will be the burning question as, when in history have any Thai government actually got anything right.
 
This post from ASEAN NOW might help:-



Fellow expat tax residents in Thailand,
One source of confusion in our communications regarding Thai income tax issues is the lack of consistent use of technical terms in English. The Revenue Department webpage https://www.rd.go.th/english/38306.html states the following:

Advisory Notice
Please note that the English version is for translation purposes only. For official use, please refer to the Thai language.

The absence of “official” translations of Thai language tax-related documents results in variations in terms used by sources of information accessible online, including articles in English language newspapers. On the other hand, use of terms on web-based articles by international law and tax consultant firms are usually quite consistent, with minor variations.

The diverse collection of participants in this forum from different countries and including non-native English speakers naturally gives rise to many different idiosyncratic uses of important legal and taxation terms, resulting in confusion. If we could all get clear on the use terms these terms in English, it would facilitate clarity in our continued discussions going forward.

For example, Exemptions, Deductions of Expenses, and Allowances are not synonyms – they are not inter-changeable; rather, each term has a specific meaning and a different root word in Thai.

These are the terms used in the PND 91 tax filing form in English from the downloadable forms on the RD webpage: https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html Personal Income Tax Return for taxpayer with only income from employment under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code Only (Tax Year 2022).


1701826772417.png


It is hoped that this example may help to visualize the structure of the tax filing form for those who report “only income from employment” category using the PND 91 form.

Taxpayers who report other categories of income must use the other form PND 90 “for taxpayer with income not only from employment” to include income from other categories as well, such as interest, dividends, rental income, etc.

If one accepts payment of 15% withholding tax on interest on Thai bank accounts, one can use the PND 91 form; otherwise, one must use the PND 90 form to claim refund of the 15% withholding tax on interest.

Exemptions, deductions of expenses, allowances: not same = different.
Good luck in your Thai tax adventures


 
Pattaya Mail article:-


Myths about Thai expats and those income tax changes starting very soon​


Most expats in Thailand live on income or capital, or both, built up over many years with tax already paid in the country of passport. They are understandably worried by the imminent change in Thai Revenue practice – it is not a new law passed by parliament – which will potentially tax new and assessable foreign-sourced income beginning in January 2024. Pattaya Mail has received more concerned reader feedback about this issue than any other during 2023. With inauguration day fast approaching, here is our summary for the typical expat who does not indulge in major currency speculation, huge profit-taking from overseas businesses nor off-shore bank accounts hiding their cash.

Has the Thai Revenue clarified the position of typical expats? No. It is commonly assumed that the Revenue is mainly interested in rich Thais and foreigners who have manipulated Thai tax rules in the past to avoid payments from overseas. Typical expats with home-country pensions or social security allowances are not part of this agenda, though in theory they could be caught in the crossfire. Talks are continuing between senior accountancy firms, lobby groups and the Revenue about this and other issues. Don’t expect answers any time soon.

Will my international cash transfers to Thailand from January 1 2024 be reduced on arrival by a Bank of Thailand tax levy? No. There will not be any changes from current practice. You pay tax in arrears in Thailand by registering at the Revenue for a tax identification number and paying tax due, if any, in the next fiscal year. There is no PAYE procedure in Thailand. The misunderstanding that Thailand will tax international transfers as the cash arrives is a widespread misconception

Should I apply for a tax identification number? Not unless you receive an instruction from a government source or the immigration, both very unlikely scenarios. It is almost certain that, at any rate in the early years, tax registration will be voluntary. If you believe you have been taxed already on your cash sent to Thailand, it’s best to do nothing now. There is no need to employ the services of tax accountants if you are a typical expat (unless working here on a work permit which is a separate subject). The tax situation as regards cash sent to Thailand to purchase property is a separate source of ambiguity.

Most countries with expats here have a double taxation treaty with Thailand, so is that relevant? That depends on the exact wording of complex documents which differ substantially one from another. Double taxation treaties are designed to be used only in cases where Thailand and the first country cannot agree on who has the right to tax. If Thai Revenue were to clarify unambiguously that previously taxed income would not be retaxed, the issue would largely die.

If I need to later, how will I prove that my cash transfers to Thailand have already been taxed? This will vary on an individual basis. An expat’s tax return or the response by the internal revenue service of the first country might suffice, or a simple statement on a tax form might be acceptable. Few experts, if any, believe that the Thai Revenue has the staffing or the expertise to deal with more than 300,000 expats who are tax residents because they spend more than 180 days here in a fiscal year. It bears repeating that the registration process will likely be voluntary. The Thai government is looking for the big fish, Thai or foreign, and not the small fry.

How does Thai Revenue know about your international cash transfers? Most countries in the world, around 120 and including Thailand, are now part of the CRS (Common Reporting System) which requires financial institutions worldwide to fight tax evasion and to protect the integrity of tax systems by sharing your banking transactions with partner countries. This means that your international transfers have been/ are/ will be monitored by Thai financial authorities. Some experts believe that Thai Revenue will use CRS as the route to question rich Thais and foreigners about large international transactions. Amongst the countries not registered for CRS are North Korea and the Vatican.

What is the Thai government really up to? The new post-coup government simply wants to raise cash, in part to help pay for its populist policies such as the 10,000 baht give away scheme. One can assume that nobody in authority has yet thought seriously about the effects of the change on the expat market here and the potential unpopularity amongst long-term visa holders including one year retirement extensions, Elite and the 10 year Long Term Residence. If you are an expat living in Thailand for at least half the year, without any major financial secrets to keep from Thai Revenue, then it’s best to do nothing until the situation is clearer. That’ll take several months yet. But no point in packing your bags in disgust and leaving for Cambodia. They are a CRS country too
 
Pattaya Mail article:-


Myths about Thai expats and those income tax changes starting very soon​


Most expats in Thailand live on income or capital, or both, built up over many years with tax already paid in the country of passport. They are understandably worried by the imminent change in Thai Revenue practice – it is not a new law passed by parliament – which will potentially tax new and assessable foreign-sourced income beginning in January 2024. Pattaya Mail has received more concerned reader feedback about this issue than any other during 2023. With inauguration day fast approaching, here is our summary for the typical expat who does not indulge in major currency speculation, huge profit-taking from overseas businesses nor off-shore bank accounts hiding their cash.

Has the Thai Revenue clarified the position of typical expats? No. It is commonly assumed that the Revenue is mainly interested in rich Thais and foreigners who have manipulated Thai tax rules in the past to avoid payments from overseas. Typical expats with home-country pensions or social security allowances are not part of this agenda, though in theory they could be caught in the crossfire. Talks are continuing between senior accountancy firms, lobby groups and the Revenue about this and other issues. Don’t expect answers any time soon.

Will my international cash transfers to Thailand from January 1 2024 be reduced on arrival by a Bank of Thailand tax levy? No. There will not be any changes from current practice. You pay tax in arrears in Thailand by registering at the Revenue for a tax identification number and paying tax due, if any, in the next fiscal year. There is no PAYE procedure in Thailand. The misunderstanding that Thailand will tax international transfers as the cash arrives is a widespread misconception

Should I apply for a tax identification number? Not unless you receive an instruction from a government source or the immigration, both very unlikely scenarios. It is almost certain that, at any rate in the early years, tax registration will be voluntary. If you believe you have been taxed already on your cash sent to Thailand, it’s best to do nothing now. There is no need to employ the services of tax accountants if you are a typical expat (unless working here on a work permit which is a separate subject). The tax situation as regards cash sent to Thailand to purchase property is a separate source of ambiguity.

Most countries with expats here have a double taxation treaty with Thailand, so is that relevant? That depends on the exact wording of complex documents which differ substantially one from another. Double taxation treaties are designed to be used only in cases where Thailand and the first country cannot agree on who has the right to tax. If Thai Revenue were to clarify unambiguously that previously taxed income would not be retaxed, the issue would largely die.

If I need to later, how will I prove that my cash transfers to Thailand have already been taxed? This will vary on an individual basis. An expat’s tax return or the response by the internal revenue service of the first country might suffice, or a simple statement on a tax form might be acceptable. Few experts, if any, believe that the Thai Revenue has the staffing or the expertise to deal with more than 300,000 expats who are tax residents because they spend more than 180 days here in a fiscal year. It bears repeating that the registration process will likely be voluntary. The Thai government is looking for the big fish, Thai or foreign, and not the small fry.

How does Thai Revenue know about your international cash transfers? Most countries in the world, around 120 and including Thailand, are now part of the CRS (Common Reporting System) which requires financial institutions worldwide to fight tax evasion and to protect the integrity of tax systems by sharing your banking transactions with partner countries. This means that your international transfers have been/ are/ will be monitored by Thai financial authorities. Some experts believe that Thai Revenue will use CRS as the route to question rich Thais and foreigners about large international transactions. Amongst the countries not registered for CRS are North Korea and the Vatican.

What is the Thai government really up to? The new post-coup government simply wants to raise cash, in part to help pay for its populist policies such as the 10,000 baht give away scheme. One can assume that nobody in authority has yet thought seriously about the effects of the change on the expat market here and the potential unpopularity amongst long-term visa holders including one year retirement extensions, Elite and the 10 year Long Term Residence. If you are an expat living in Thailand for at least half the year, without any major financial secrets to keep from Thai Revenue, then it’s best to do nothing until the situation is clearer. That’ll take several months yet. But no point in packing your bags in disgust and leaving for Cambodia. They are a CRS country too
Very good sumary--thanks.
 
I asked my Wife to whom I should go to, to report that I owe nothing. I don't trust myself to fill in tax information, even in the USA.

She hasn't a clue and is asking her family.

Any ideas? Is there a local version of H&R Block?

-sterling
 
I asked my Wife to whom I should go to, to report that I owe nothing. I don't trust myself to fill in tax information, even in the USA.

She hasn't a clue and is asking her family.

Any ideas? Is there a local version of H&R Block?

-sterling
Maybe your embassy can give a list of tax experts here. :) Maybe they can even explain what the hell is going on with this new taxation BS. I don't think I have heard nary a word about it from the US Embassy people on the subject.
 
I asked my Wife to...
She hasn't a clue and is asking her family.

Any ideas? Is there a local version of H&R Block?

-sterling

Sounds like a reoccuring problem with your Mrs...

Are you sure she fully understands and comprehends your questions, inquiries and requests in your language (English or otherwise) ?
I personally have found a nodding head, a 'yes' or 'I understand' doesn't necessarily mean that they do.

Sterling, are you now legally married in Thailand ?

For a local version try looking up H&R Block Expat.
 
Sounds like a reoccuring problem with your Mrs...

Are you sure she fully understands and comprehends your questions, inquiries and requests in your language (English or otherwise) ?
I personally have found a nodding head, a 'yes' or 'I understand' doesn't necessarily mean that they do.

Sterling, are you now legally married in Thailand ?

For a local version try looking up H&R Block Expat.

Yeah, I don't trust the nod. She knows very little when it comes to Expat issues. She differs to her elder sister on those matters as sister works in some capacity with the village hierarchy. Then it filters back down and I'm told, 'No one knows'.

Someone suggested asking at the Thai tax office, so we're headed there next week. Never would have occurred to me to go to the IRS in the US, so didn't consider it here.

This week was dedicated to her US Visa Bangkok interview visit. Third attempt, and it went through. WOOT!

Long trip for a 30 minute interview.

-sterling
 
Yeah, I don't trust the nod. She knows very little when it comes to Expat issues. She differs to her elder sister on those matters as sister works in some capacity with the village hierarchy. Then it filters back down and I'm told, 'No one knows'.

Someone suggested asking at the Thai tax office, so we're headed there next week. Never would have occurred to me to go to the IRS in the US, so didn't consider it here.

This week was dedicated to her US Visa Bangkok interview visit. Third attempt, and it went through. WOOT!

Long trip for a 30 minute interview.

-sterling
Hope you find your local tax office as helpful as those in SSK!
 
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